amemorablename

joined 2 years ago
[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

And I’m not criticizing the meme, but there seems to be this trend amongst us in the western “left” to expect China to swoop in and take care of all our problems in a style akin only to the nostalgic “memories” we’ve developed of the Soviets.

This is an interesting point because the key here is the USSR doesn't exist anymore. And for quite a few of us in these spaces, it probably never existed while we were alive (or not while we were cogent adult beings). The USSR as a world savior simply never existed. As impact beyond itself goes, the USSR made a huge difference in defeating Nazi Germany and being the first to establish a socialist state project, but it also took massive losses in the process of fighting Nazi Germany and was stretched thin from that and its international efforts. Meanwhile, the US was positioned really well after WWII to steamroll over the planet, utilizing pre-existing colonial and imperial tendrils to make it all the easier to do so.

In other words, what I'm trying to say is that although the USSR did great things for people, it was still heavily limited by its material conditions. And if it was still around today, it would be getting criticized by ultra-leftists in similar ways to how China is criticized now. Because it wouldn't be making all of the most plainly "moral" decisions, it would not be saving the world but instead acting in a complex way that tries to move the international and local cause of liberation forward, and the western empire propaganda machine would be telling people from day one to despise everything it stands for.

Here the Christian culture that Jones Manoel talks of rears its head again. Now that the USSR is no more, we can freely romanticize what it was, in a form unmarred by complex and uncomfortable realities. We can wallow in the comfort of the idea untouched and untainted by good will having to work within circumstances full of cruelty and neglect. It's reassuring in a way to hide in the purity of the idea, if one believes that acting within a cruel world, rather than rejecting it with the most swift and bridge-burning measures, has an inevitable corrupting influence that destroys otherwise good efforts or damns one (if not the whole world) to depravity.

Likewise with praise of China. It is dangerous (to their comfort) for the purist to sincerely learn about China in detail because the ideal will be shattered in favor of the material realities. The Christian-influenced conclusion will lead to the belief that it has been "corrupted". It is then knocked down from the pedestal that it never asked to be on, where it can be spat upon like a fallen angel who seeks to lead lost souls astray.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 7 hours ago

I think rainpizza put it the best here: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/10742177/7761032

To enforce that economic blockade, you have to declare war to the entire West and decouple completely from the Western system(USD, SWIFT, Maritime Shipping Routes, et all).

As long as the West is willing to save their Zionist dog by bleeding their economies dry, there is no viable way to do an economic blockade without a military siege.

The problem with people here is that they see the entity as something separate rather than something within the Western system. To eradicate Israel, you have to destroy the West.

(bold emphasis mine)

In other words, we cannot take the western empire out of the picture and try to understand China's dealings with israel as dealing with a purely sovereign, independent entity (because that's not what it is). We have to understand it in relation to israel's dependence on / connection with the US. When we put it in that way, it's easier I think to understand that the question is not one of distancing from israel, but distancing from the west, and actively doing that is a valid choice for an AES state to make but it's not the path China took when they focused on building up their productive forces and becoming the productive powerhouse that they now are. For them to go a different way has much broader implications than trade with any one nation and needs to make sense in the context of how they're engaging with unipolar capitalism and the dynamics of global trade in order to develop toward multipolar. Were they equipped to reject the west and its genocidal ways on a broader scale, I would expect that israel would only be the tip of the iceberg and they would have a million excuses to do so with the way the west treats them and others.

So then the question becomes why? The cynical ultra-left view seems to be something like that they're not rejecting the west because they benefit from the trade deals or something. But the west wants to undermine them no matter how they try to work for mutual benefit and the evidence points to them still being thoroughly led by communist principles. So the ultra-left view doesn't make sense. You have to essentially believe they are either stupid or compromised on a large scale, while still putting on a face like they aren't, both of which reek of racism that the Chinese people are incapable of recognizing internal threats and acting competently.

I think the ML answer is that the west wants to isolate and encircle them, always has, and China does not (yet) have the power to cut the west out, rather than be cut out by the west, if it comes to that; in bits and pieces maybe, and we saw some of that in the way China handled the attempted browbeating from the US with tariffs. But I think it's still in a fragile rather than well-established state. And until the balance of power shifts enough away from western economic dominance, China playing fast and loose with rejecting trade partners means cutting themselves out of deals that could broaden their influence and weaken the west's. This after they have worked really hard to forge the trade connections they have in the world.

I could imagine a counter argument regarding proxies going something like: Well what about Ukraine with Russia? Russia intervened militarily in Ukraine, in spite of it being a proxy of the west. But Ukraine wasn't always a proxy, it took a long time for all out war to happen including from the west sabotaging peace deal efforts, including from Ukraine being an aggressor in the donbass, and this in the context of Ukraine being near Russia. The closest comparison for China would probably be when the US was openly at war in Korea, the Korean liberation forces were trying to fight them back and they asked for help from China and China of the time stepped in militarily. It was not only a matter of helping those in need, but it would have also been dangerous for them to have the US knocking on their doorstep next.

What's happening to Palestine is unquestionably horrific, but it's also far from the first time the west has done genocidal things. I think it seems unprecedented in its way largely because of how televised in real-time a genocide it has been. But the destruction itself is already characteristic of colonialism for hundreds of years and the imperialism form that developed after. If China treated it like an anomalous level of evil that has never been done before and threw massive weight behind trying to stop it as a result, they would be ignoring everything else the west has gotten away with and how important it is to ensure its power falls as a whole, not just through one proxy.

Is there a better way than what they are doing? Maybe analysis would show there is, I don't know. But there are other countries and peoples who are more closely positioned to oppose what's going on, namely those in the west, whose trade deals and leadership actively manufacture support for genocide day in and day out.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

So don't trade with the US? With the EU? With any of the western empire's proxies? That's a lot to be cutting out.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 9 hours ago

Racist fuckers pretty much asking the Chinese to risk death and nuclear WWIII while they are too incompetent to do fuck all in their own countries (^most lenient scenario. actual scenario - they partake in the benefits of imperialism).

So kind of like this

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

but the second you criticize the lack of any real support for Palestine, all of a sudden you get a 10 pages essay about why their strategy of inaction is 10D chess and how they have to keep doing business with Israel and having their politicians literally praise trade deals with them in order to somehow eventually prevent the single last Palestinian child from being murdered.

This is just bad faith nonsense. People have really got to stop believing negative stuff they read about an AES project just because it aligns with what they already suppose is happening.

I can't seem to find it in my bookmarks at the moment so maybe I didn't bookmark it, but there was a thing just recently about a company that was having problems because of China having blocked new investments in israel and marked it as high risk since 2023. I could not figure out from that one story whether the blocking new investments part was recent or if that was also since 2023, but this is part of the problem. Most sources English-speaking people will come across about China organically are not sources coming directly from China about what China is doing.

I use this as an example because it demonstrates how it already isn't as simple as "they are doing business with israel as normal".

Another recent example, about Venezuela, was some people falling for an imperialist headline that claimed Venezuela was sending oil to israel and they took this as evidence of Delcy Rodriguez being a sellout. But official Venezuelan sourcing corrected this claim.

As for the stuff about "10D chess", I can only assume you're referring to analyses that delve into the situation China found itself in after the USSR got destroyed and why it has taken the path it has. It's not 10D chess, it's dialectical and historical materialism, which can probably sound convoluted sometimes, but that's because 1) taking on a hegemonic global capitalist empire is complicated and 2) we're largely trying to explain it from the outside in without having grown up in the Chinese context and being privy to how it all went down.

You're welcome to challenge the analyses and do your own, but dismissing it as 10 page essays of excuses is not helping anyone. It's pretty low effort to fling shit at people who are trying to understand the world and shout some moralist proclamations. It takes more effort to contribute to that understanding, but more importantly, it can require real sacrifice to take moral stands that have consequences for doing so that can result in a painful end.

And if the people of Palestine can be steadfast throughout the decades of torture and genocide they've faced, what is your excuse for proclaiming them doomed?

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 11 hours ago

‘They’re actually sweating profusely and waiting to hit the big communism button’ is really not convincing

I honestly don't know what you mean by this.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 12 hours ago

Maybe he figures if he posts hard enough, China will give up on the plans it puts into place years in advance and rapidly shift gears into an adventurist world liberation military campaign.

We should have standards of a kind. But as passing along sources of information goes, I don't think one of them needs to be "must be a communist." As I understand it, the primary contradiction right now is imperialism, so if someone is doing good anti-imperialist work, that's something. Now if they are doing token anti-imperialist talking points and then taking a hard right turn, that's a good place to draw the line, I think. But I'm not aware of this person failing in that particular way.

The issue here appears to be that he recently posted a statement from Noam Chomsky's wife, Valéria Chomsky, about the ties to Epstein: https://www.aaronmate.net/p/noam-chomskys-wife-responds-to-epstein

And that prior to that, he posted something defensive of Noam Chomsky before retracting it after having read more on exchanges between Chomsky and Epstein. Shown at around 1:10-1:30 into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW9gAKG7gFo

Where my mind goes is, what are his ties to Chomsky and reason for related sympathies. Is it nothing more than being defensive because, as he puts it, he saw it as "a rush to nullify a lifetime of noble work" (e.g. he believes in contributions Chomsky has made and sees it as the usual imperialist media looking for excuses to go after anyone outside the box?). Or is he himself too much like controlled opposition and Chomsky was too, and same is running cover for same?

I don't know enough about him to judge and I think we should be cautious of assuming ill intent based on "six degrees of separation to Epstein" kind of thinking, especially when there are plenty of evident and straightforward connections to be concerned about. At the same time, I think there is value in being cautious in the other direction and investigating the material interests of people who are anti-imperialist but are not ML. It's not going to be some cosmic accident that they are that way. There will be reasons they are willing to embrace the one, but not the other, whether those reasons are easy to see or not.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 week ago

Thank you for keeping an eye out. 🫡

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 week ago
  1. That doesn't address the point about Cuba specifically.

  2. It is in question what's actually going on with that story. See: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/10668800 Is there a source on the Venezuelan government explicitly approving it to normalize relations with israel? I'd think there'd be some kind of statement for a thing like that if the goal was to have ties.

I mean, the bloomberg source says:

Venezuela is sending its first crude oil cargo to Israel in years as the Latin American country’s exports open up following the capture of its president Nicolas Maduro.

The cargo is being transported to Bazan Group, the Mediterranean country’s top crude processor, people with knowledge of the deal said, asking not to be identified because the information isn’t public.

Why would they be all cagey about it if they're capitulating?

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 week ago (6 children)

That makes more sense to me that it's because of the ramp up in US attacks. What I don't understand is the OP implication that Maduro is somehow the deciding factor here. Unless Venezuela has a fleet that can stand up to the US and it's not using it only because Maduro isn't there, I don't see how he is the difference.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 week ago (10 children)

I'm confused, is Delcy Rodriguez not mostly continuing the same policy? I thought the Bolivarian Revolution was still going, in spite of them kidnapping Maduro.

Also, Cuba has I'm sure done immense work keeping itself alive against imperialist threats. They have struggled for a long time because of siege from a much more powerful country, but that doesn't mean they are helpless.

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